Under Review Idea on how to fix Mirages

Leba

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#1
Mirages have been discussed for awhile now, and improvements have been asked for a number of times. They were originally always denied (besides once, when the times were changed to being open to 2h) due to "EXP inflation". I don't think it's a valid argument anymore, with HEXA having happened a few times (which is the definition of EXP inflation), and the fact that leveling past 85 is near impossible as of now.

The main problem is their infrequency. Due to the fact that they cover 4 timezones (each 6 hours apart), that they remain open for 2 hours only and that each mirage opens every 3 days (and we know only one is worth leveling up in), it makes it pretty difficult to spend a nice number of hours in it and be consistent.
This ends up with not only being demotivated to grind in them (grinding for 2h then waiting 3 days to grind 2h again is sad), but higher levels (especially 85+) taking weeks, if not well over a month to complete, on top of the fact that they take a ridiculous amount of effort (both time and money).

My suggestion is to make each mirage open every day, but only the "main" mirage of that day (which would with the current system be the only one that opened) would spawn a boss and remain open for 2 hours. The other two could (as a test run) remain open 1h, and later on be adjusted to 2h or even 1h30, based on feedback, without spawning the boss.

As an example:

Current system:
Day 1:
  • Thundoria Mirage opens for 2 hours, boss spawns
Day 2:
  • Shaitan Mirage opens for 2 hours, boss spawns
Day 3:
  • Icicle Mirage opens for 2 hours, boss spawns
Day 4:
  • Thundoria mirage opens for 2 hours, boss spawns
and so on.... (of course, everything happens twice a day, with 12 hours apart)

My suggested system:
Day 1:
  • Thundoria Mirage opens for 2 hours, boss spawns
  • Shaitan Mirage opens for 1 hour, boss doesn't spawn
  • Icicle Mirage opens for 1 hour, boss doesn't spawn
Day 2:
  • Shaitan Mirage opens for 2 hours, boss spawns
  • Thundoria Mirage opens for 1 hour, boss doesn't spawn
  • Icicle Mirage opens for 1 hour, boss doesn't spawn
Day 3:
  • Icicle Mirage opens for 2 hours, boss spawns
  • Shaitan Mirage opens for 1 hour, boss doesn't spawn
  • Thundoria Mirage opens for 1 hour, boss doesn't spawn
Day 4:
  • Thundoria Mirage opens for 2 hours, boss spawns
  • Shaitan Mirage opens for 1 hour, boss doesn't spawn
  • Icicle Mirage opens for 1 hour, boss doesn't spawn
and so on.... (of course, everything happens twice a day, with 12 hours apart)

I feel like these changes would finally motivate people to do mirages more, whether it's to simply level at 80+ and catch up to people who are some levels higher right now, or someone trying to push for lv90. I'd rather the "extra" mirages open for 2h, but as I said earlier, 1h could be a good start just to see whether this change would affect Mirage activity, and in what way.

Thoughts?
 

Leba

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#3
Can Explain a bit more in details? As I feel that's the key.
Thundoria Mirage was originally meant for Crusaders and Champions. This means the mobs have low dodge and low hit rate. They also have low attack because the mob density is a lot higher.
Icicle Mirage was meant for Sharpshooters. Some mobs are ranged, all mobs have high hit rate, attack and dodge. They hit way too hard for SSs to level in peace here and there's too few of them compared to Thundoria.
Shaitan Mirage was meant for magic classes. The mobs have absurd amounts of def/pr, but for some reason high hp as well. There's not enough of them for voys (the only magic class that can level on their own basically), especially past 85 (and until 85, abba 4 is better however you look at it).

This obviously leads to Thundoria Mirage being the only one that's worthwhile, just because it's a lot easier and a lot faster, not to mention caters to crusaders, which is the most plentiful class here.

Yes, "fixing" these disparities between mirages would be nice but there's limitations to take into account, such as the boss, the size of the map (Thundoria is a lot larger than Icicle for example) and whether any changes to the map would make it "abusable" by its unintended class (for example, changing Icicle mirage to make it easier for SSs could make it far too easy for Crusaders).
 

mambooo5

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#5
Good suggestion.

However this will not address the issue that people would only go for Thundoria Mirage only. I think everyone can agree that Thundoria Mirage is the only useful Mirage, simply because the number of mob is 3 or 4 times more than other Mirages.

Alternatively, I would propose to make Icicle Mirage and Shaitan Mirage more useful.

I give you an example from voyager point of view:
1) I can conch 5 mobs at a time in Thundoria Mirage, but only 2 or 3 mobs at a time in Shaitan Mirage. The exp and drop I would get from Shaitan Mirage is halved.
2) Devious Cactus (lv83) mob in Shaitan Mirage is not aggresive, which means I cannot conch 2 or 3 mobs at the same time.
3) The range that mobs getting agro is a joke. Chase Range of all the Mirages mob is 1500, but Chase Range of Abbadon mob is 2500 for example. Excuse me?? Voyager suppose to lure mobs and conch, not to lure mob and lose the mobs.

People commented that Thundoria Mirage is meant for crusaders, Icicle Mirage meant for sharpshooter, and Shaitan Mirage meant for magics like voyager. But it seems like Icicle Mirage and Shaitan Mirage is totally trash.

To make Icicle Mirage and Shaitan mirage more meaningful, I propose:
Icicle Mirage - greatly increase strength of mob, and double/triple its exp and drop rate. To make the map more tailored for sharpshooter, perhaps increase the mob's Chase Range to 2500, hit rate to 400, so that class such as crusader will get hurt easily. Note that Icicle mob is range attack, so regardless it is not useful for voyager class.

Shaitan Mirage - make all mobs aggressive, and increase the Chase Range to 2500, and double/triple its exp and drop rate.

Nevertheless if Leba's suggestion is implemented, is a definitely an improvement, but I feel it still doesn't address the imbalance, and player will still ignore the other 2 Mirages.
 

Leba

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#6
Good suggestion.

However this will not address the issue that people would only go for Thundoria Mirage only. I think everyone can agree that Thundoria Mirage is the only useful Mirage, simply because the number of mob is 3 or 4 times more than other Mirages.

Alternatively, I would propose to make Icicle Mirage and Shaitan Mirage more useful.

I give you an example from voyager point of view:
1) I can conch 5 mobs at a time in Thundoria Mirage, but only 2 or 3 mobs at a time in Shaitan Mirage. The exp and drop I would get from Shaitan Mirage is halved.
2) Devious Cactus (lv83) mob in Shaitan Mirage is not aggresive, which means I cannot conch 2 or 3 mobs at the same time.
3) The range that mobs getting agro is a joke. Chase Range of all the Mirages mob is 1500, but Chase Range of Abbadon mob is 2500 for example. Excuse me?? Voyager suppose to lure mobs and conch, not to lure mob and lose the mobs.

People commented that Thundoria Mirage is meant for crusaders, Icicle Mirage meant for sharpshooter, and Shaitan Mirage meant for magics like voyager. But it seems like Icicle Mirage and Shaitan Mirage is totally trash.

To make Icicle Mirage and Shaitan mirage more meaningful, I propose:
Icicle Mirage - greatly increase strength of mob, and double/triple its exp and drop rate. To make the map more tailored for sharpshooter, perhaps increase the mob's Chase Range to 2500, hit rate to 400, so that class such as crusader will get hurt easily. Note that Icicle mob is range attack, so regardless it is not useful for voyager class.

Shaitan Mirage - make all mobs aggressive, and increase the Chase Range to 2500, and double/triple its exp and drop rate.

Nevertheless if Leba's suggestion is implemented, is a definitely an improvement, but I feel it still doesn't address the imbalance, and player will still ignore the other 2 Mirages.
I agree, but I feel like this is a problem on its own, and not tied to the problem discussed in this thread. Even if those two mirages were fixed, they would still open every 3 days, which is what this thread is addressing.

The problem of Icicle/Shaitan mirage could be discussed in a different thread (and I encourage you to make one xP), and would go nicely with the opening times suggestion here.
 

wbxlevante

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#7
If I recall correcly back in ToP 1 times, those mirage portals we available for a short period of time, but once you entered the map, you could stay there as long as you wanted.
I remember myself leveling to 90 in thundoria mirage.
Even tho the lvling speed was too slow.
12h straight (cuz of the double exp weekend) + Hi amp + Nana + Poss made only 50% of the level.
And im talking about chars who went over lv5 gems, mordo jr, and those things we dont have in this server.

Problem of vanilla is the fact that the game was never finished, and lacks of good content.
As the years pass devs should know any moment they must add all those infamous contents that killed the game to add more days to a dying server.

Your idea isnt wrong.
Even if they leave mirages opened no impact will be seen. Only invo bps will be more frequent and will decrease its price.
Back in the days there were only few ppl who dedicated to lvl up in mirage with x2 exp every single weekend.
With no x2 exp weekend in this server, there wont be more than 10 ppl who take advantage of a larger window in mirage.
 

dualswordmaster

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#8
If I recall correcly back in ToP 1 times, those mirage portals we available for a short period of time, but once you entered the map, you could stay there as long as you wanted.
I remember myself leveling to 90 in thundoria mirage.
Even tho the lvling speed was too slow.
12h straight (cuz of the double exp weekend) + Hi amp + Nana + Poss made only 50% of the level.
And im talking about chars who went over lv5 gems, mordo jr, and those things we dont have in this server.

Problem of vanilla is the fact that the game was never finished, and lacks of good content.
As the years pass devs should know any moment they must add all those infamous contents that killed the game to add more days to a dying server.

Your idea isnt wrong.
Even if they leave mirages opened no impact will be seen. Only invo bps will be more frequent and will decrease its price.
Back in the days there were only few ppl who dedicated to lvl up in mirage with x2 exp every single weekend.
With no x2 exp weekend in this server, there wont be more than 10 ppl who take advantage of a larger window in mirage.
ppl from 70 till 90 can lvl up here. At this moment 73+ hard because no place for good ez lvling.
 

Leba

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#11
With no x2 exp weekend in this server, there wont be more than 10 ppl who take advantage of a larger window in mirage.
Historically, that's been the case in this server for just about anything.
When 70 was the soft cap, you had 1 guy (Villo) that bothered leveling past 70, followed by the first rebirth party that bothered getting to 75... after that, others started too.
When 75 became the new 70, literally one guy (xCryLoud) went for lv80. Eventually followed by others a well.

The point is that the methods to reach those levels were always there, it wasn't that those people reached some sort of gem/gear level which wasn't accessible before. They simply decided to take advantage of what was available and, even at abysmal rates, reached their goals.

The problem right now is that the methods aren't there. Or they are but to what extent? You can get up to 8h of leveling in mirages per week (well, roughly, 12h every 3rd week). But no single person (unless they devote their life to mirages) can catch all because of the timezones they cover. This leads to levels past 85 (though 80-85 isn't that bright either) requiring, not only ~100m for amps, nanas and ratz and 30h+ grinding; they also take you 2 months to complete.

That's the main issue, people here are used to the grind, no one minds leveling at absurdly low rates or invest a lot in leveling supplies. The problem is that the only valid methods to level are both inconsistent and open too rarely that any progress takes not weeks but freaking months...
 
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