Death Weapons

wbxlevante

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#1
Im opening this thread to know the current status of the game regarding this topic.

If I start today the game from scratch: no money, no knowledge, no friends.
How much time will it take me to get the chance of 100% get 1 of this weapons?
Im asking just for this ones because those are the original end game weapons, im not gonna reffer to lv95 unseals or alike.

I remember I played ToP1 for aprox. 5 years and never got the chance to get one in-game.
After all those years playing I managed to get 1 (darkness emissary - agi version) and was from Mall Event.

I've seen some days ppl killing the Abaddon bosses and so far I've just seen 1 weapon in stalls, after 1 month playing this server.

I know this is a vanilla server intented to revive the old PKO days, but at this year, with so many games in the market, I see no point in dedicating 5 years again in a game that wont offer any chance of getting the end game equipment in a reasonable time window.
 

thebluehair

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#2
its nothing easy to get this kind of items:
  1. first you need to make or be part of any guild (ATM there are 2 guild that can face abaddon: Supreme and Slipe N Slide).
  2. giving that you are playing since today, you have to work hard for the guild (farming, mazes, etc), and maybe you can be consider on the list of players that gonna receive DE's.
  3. You have to be atleast 4/2 to be considered (lvl 4 ugs and lv 2 bd gems).
Note: this is my point of view.

This may can help you: https://pirateking.online/threads/how-to-obtain-the-death-weapons-and-not-die-in-the-attempt-⚔.6524/
 

wbxlevante

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#3
Yes, thats my point.
This surely dont seem appealing for a game this old.

For new players seems like a lifetime investment.
Nostalgia players as me already consider this like a waste of time and totally not worthy considering this server may or may not be shut down tomorrow.

This is why most people wont take any PKO server seriously. No matter how vanilla it is.

My point is.
There should be an improvement in the end game scenario, unless Admins dont really care about this.

Sure is a small business, and the more the server stays frozen as it is right now, the better, right?
This way the only "new content" will be apparels.

For a game over a decade old, and for a server over 2 years old, theres nothing new compared to the original versions.

Dont get me wrong. I like the nostalgia this game brings, but nothing else.
Most people is playing this game because of the memories.

And many will stop playing once they realize that in order to enjoy the game at its fullest, they will need to invest a couple of years before getting a glipse of the real end game content.
Like 10 years ago.

So if this server pretend to be a reconstruction of the original PKO, they should speed some things up.
Because many of us already were there and few are willing to spend 5 years to get back to where things were.

Anyways, thats just my opinion.
Ive already broke the game back in the days.
So im just wandering around remembering the good times.
 

Leba

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#4
Regarding Death weapons:
Bear in mind a few things (especially while comparing it to old PKO/ToP):
-Abba has only been launched several months ago in this server and was down for a few weeks(?) to apply some bugfixes.
-Not every Abba is successful. It's possible for it to "fail" (Killing abba 8 boss prematurely), or guilds not being able to boss it (Kuroo or some of the 10-17 bosses)
-In the situation that Abba is 'successful' and every boss is done, it may not always drop a death weapon (or the better version) due to low drop rates.

All of this combined is the reason there's not so many death weapons in this server in general, let alone on the market; and why guilds are still "hoarding" them to gear their main players out.
This, however, also means that it's not impossible to PK here without them. Yes, they are end game content, but there's very few of them that a big part of the playerbase (even the players on the very top) are still using Uns 65 or Cardic Unity weapons. This means that Death Weapons are not yet a super realistic goal someone, especially a newer player, should set for themselves.

Regarding your second post:
It's a bit of a myth that it takes years to catch up here or get to where you were before. Catching up isn't as hard as it seems, it just takes time, but not as much as you'd think.
I'm sure you can build a decent char for PK (depends on the class of course) within 1-2 months with just "casual" grinding and make a stronger char (again, depends on the class) within 3-4 months. Less if you find someone to help you out or mall though this is assuming you don't mall, don't have anyone that could boost you or help you out, but assuming that you know what you're doing as well.

Yes, a few months to get somewhere might seem like a lot but it's nowhere near "5 years" or any other number people usually put out there.
There should be an improvement in the end game scenario, unless Admins dont really care about this.
So if this server pretend to be a reconstruction of the original PKO, they should speed some things up.
I have mixed feelings on these. Are you trying to suggest that end game content is available more easily to newer players or that more end-game content has to come up (for example Winter or something "custom") so that people are able to progress faster?
 

Developer

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#5
I have mixed feelings on these. Are you trying to suggest that end game content is available more easily to newer players or that more end-game content has to come up (for example Winter or something "custom") so that people are able to progress faster?
I do agree that grinding the first levels is quite hard. And that some of High-level players like to abuse the `plvl`.
So we would like to address this. At least on part of levels 1-65.
 

wbxlevante

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#6
-Not every Abba is successful. It's possible for it to "fail" (Killing abba 8 boss prematurely), or guilds not being able to boss it (Kuroo or some of the 10-17 bosses)
-In the situation that Abba is 'successful' and every boss is done, it may not always drop a death weapon (or the better version) due to low drop rates.
Exactly, this seems unreasonable to a game this old.
Ofc im not pretending to be able to get my hands on this weapons within a couple of weeks.
But a new player should get the feeling they can achieve this in a reasonable period of time, lets say half a year, bit him/herself.
 

wbxlevante

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#7
I do agree that grinding the first levels is quite hard. And that some of High-level players like to abuse the `plvl`.
So we would like to address this. At least on part of levels 1-65.
Actually, the leveling system, although is a bit wacky on the 80s, doesnt matter that much.
Money at lower stages do more than leveling honestly.
Also with the eventual Hexatlons people can catch up.
 

Leba

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#8
But a new player should get the feeling they can achieve this in a reasonable period of time, lets say half a year, bit him/herself.
Yeah that's fair, and it is realistic with how the game is right now I'd say. Maybe a bit far-fetched but not that far from the truth.
I feel like the low drop rate on Death weapons is actually a good thing. The fact that there's so few of them gives people more hope of catching up, because they can use the same gear the big majority of players is using. Most newer people (or people who weren't new but not into PK/guilds/HL content yet) were usually excited to hear that Death weapons are still a rarity, so they do feel like they're not at a big disadvantage from players playing for a few years.

So I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. I do think you make a good point by saying that changing the late-game gear system to be more accessible to everyone would speed the process of new players getting them too, but I still stand by my opinion that lower drop rate means new people will be less discouraged to grind because the discrepancies are lower.
 

thebluehair

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#9
You still can be pro player without DE's.
I think only players that worths, get it.
 

xmarwan

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#10
You still can be pro player without DE's.
I think only players that worths, get it.
you worth nothing but u got it, so that is a false statement.

@main post, end game eqs, u might be able to get them in about 1 year of playing here, not like top days, ofc everything depends on the drop.
 

thebluehair

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#11
you worth nothing but u got it, so that is a false statement.

@main post, end game eqs, u might be able to get them in about 1 year of playing here, not like top days, ofc everything depends on the drop.
give back the DE that u stole
 

wbxlevante

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#12
Actually what Leba says makes a lot of sense.
But in the end, my point is reinforced by the factor that you need to be an active and productive member of a lead guild in order to have a small chance of running after a Death Weapon, which means social aspect, not really an in-game aspect.
Which deviates the sole purpose of the discussion, because Im suggesting in-game ways to get them, but most people agree that socializing is the way.
Dunno if you see what I mean.

Im not really familiar with the Abaddon system in this server but I believe this is a rare spawn which happens like every week or two?
Something like the Black Dragon?
 

wbxlevante

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#13
Continuing your idea.

I feel like the low drop rate on Death weapons is actually a good thing. The fact that there's so few of them gives people more hope of catching up, because they can use the same gear the big majority of players is using. Most newer people (or people who weren't new but not into PK/guilds/HL content yet) were usually excited to hear that Death weapons are still a rarity, so they do feel like they're not at a big disadvantage from players playing for a few years.
This is the main reason why treachery and hipocresy is present in this game.
Most people are sticking together only for this goals, nothing else.
And this is wrong. Because at the end of the day most people might be faking their interest in the guild goals just because they are running for a personal one. But this is subjective, I wont go deep in this one.

Theres a big difference between a low drop rate and a rare spawn. If you mix both, you get something seemly impossible.
Lets set the example, how frequent abadon 9-18 is. Lets say weekly (cuz right now i dunno the frequency).
And every weekend you get the chance to kill 1 boss for the weapon you are aiming to. With a 2.5% chance. That means 1 out of 40. Meaning in average you need like 10 months to guarantee 1 weapon (assuming you can get both from the same boss at the same time, offensive and defensive versions).

And this is just to get one, imagine crusaders who need the pair. And if you lead a guild, how many players you need to equip?

As most games, there should be mechanisms which allow players to get things by their own.

And this is good, because you will hook up your players just by letting them play your game.
Social factors is just an addon, it shouldnt take over most part of your game.
Of course population is an important thing, but for the competition, not for the game content.
We as game designers cant rely on our player base to make our games successful.
And this is something most game developers understand.

Lets take Rebirth system as an example.
It is well designed because 90% of it can be achived by the player alone. Except for the dw bosses and BD kills.

Most games nowadays allow players to get end game equipment just by grinding soloable bosses with super low drop chances, and still give the player the chance to achive that goal alone.
Also strong quest systems allow this.

In the end, allowing players to access more content more easily is not a bad thing.
Market and current server status wont be affected.

Something similar happens with DW equipment, most high lv players already have them, leaving the chance to obtain them to players outside the guilds.
Difference is, for this to occur, many years must pass before the very first weapon dropped by a guild is sold in a stall because everybody have their own.

I would suggest, make abaddons as frequent as DW, CA, etc. In the same timezones, and you will get more variety of which mazes players choose to focus on.
 

wbxlevante

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#14
Lets take gems for example.

Not everyone have lv5 gems in their equipment, although this is a very accessible feature.
Everyone is able to find gems in the game and their sources have super low drop rates.
Yet, people have the feeling they can gem up to level 5 with relative ease.
Also BD gems, which most people rely in CA instead BD.
 

Snufx

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#15
Hi n.n! Uhm by my point of view everything depends of you - most of players on lv2-4 Unic Gems...it's not that hard to catch and about BD gems / lv5 Unic gem there are few players whos have it(and they die anyways vs no good gemed). When I was lv45 I was at the bar doing pvp/MvsM vs ppl Lv65.. 75 https://ibb.co/6Xm53Kc (Lv45 party vs 60/65/70) and even vs lv80 CryLoud(Good Gemed Crusader) https://ibb.co/ChtMhLh Lv60vs80 and I won (no gemed Crusader Lv45 gears)

Start from zero and wout friends it's hard and to lv seems impossible but give a check to this video


I made it!... and took me around 1/2 Weeks to made those gears wout help n.n you can get Unic gems from OSS.. even one time i got 1 Rage from a miniboss.(0.01% drop)

Something I don't like in PKO is the players xD noone help you... you have to give something in return to get help(even if you're in a guild, there are some people who do not want to give you party in Hexation for not lose seconds..)*sad* It would be good to have a type of reward for the player that strives to level up or reward the one who helped him. :unsure:

Anyways everything is possible if you do it with effort and dedication :D

If you need some kind of help like Guide or Lving pm me.

Sorry for my poor english -hope you understand me- :)
 

Malyss

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#16
Let me start by saying that I've only been here for about 2 months.

The fact is that this game was always designed to be a 'social' game (read: teamwork). You keep alluding to old ToP. You're right, many of us played back then. In closed beta we had no pets and had to constantly sit for SP during PK in DW. It was always about team work. In the end, the only way people did anything on their own was because IGG made the game pay to win and you could mall enough OP stuff to solo. Yes, I was in that boat too so I'm not throwing any hypocrisy around.

The problem is that you keep comparing this 'old' game to newer games on the market, which are based on the current demographic's lack of ability to delay gratification- everything must be easy and instant. This game was never that, and to talk about playing for nostalgia but wanting everything to come quickly and/or easily, and without teamwork, is completely in opposition to what this game was meant to be.

There are other versions of this game out there that give you what you're looking for, but personally I find it boring when I don't have to set goals and work towards anything. There's no satisfaction in that, and you lose the joy of playing without having a decent sense of achievement. It is just a game, and meant to be enjoyed, after all.

Having said all of that, you seem to be having a bit of an off day, having made negative comments on a number of threads today- which all came up on my feed, I'm not stalking you. I hope tomorrow has a more positive outlook for you.
 

Leba

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#17
This is the main reason why treachery and hipocresy is present in this game.
Most people are sticking together only for this goals, nothing else.
And this is wrong. Because at the end of the day most people might be faking their interest in the guild goals just because they are running for a personal one. But this is subjective, I wont go deep in this one.
This is true and false at the same time I'd say... you can look at it in two ways
1) People truly are greedy and only want something for themselves, but to get to that point, they have to help the guild out... I don't see what's wrong here
2) People want to help the guild out because of X reasons (guildmates are friends, wanting the guild to get strong, "hating" the enemy guild) and get rewarded for it... nothing wrong here either
And every weekend you get the chance to kill 1 boss for the weapon you are aiming to. With a 2.5% chance. That means 1 out of 40. Meaning in average you need like 10 months to guarantee 1 weapon (assuming you can get both from the same boss at the same time, offensive and defensive versions).
It's 7.5% with hi amp of luck, which is basically the only thing you should EVER be bossing with.. it's a lot higher than what you make it out to be. Double odds if we're taking into account getting the other version of the weapon. Yes, it's not a favorable statistic but it's still good enough to keep you going... otherwise people wouldn't still be striving to go abba or spending so much on it. You're also looking at it from a personal point of view. It's not always about "the weapon I need didn't drop"... why not look at it from the perspective of "I didn't get a weapon but that one guildie of mine did". You might see it as far-fetched but if it wasn't like that, you wouldn't see Abba being as active as it is.
Lets take Rebirth system as an example.
It is well designed because 90% of it can be achived by the player alone. Except for the dw bosses and BD kills.
I would only agree about last part of Rebirth being a very good design. You have the choice of getting BD kill or grinding the annoying part out yourself. High risk low effort or low risk high effort. The rest of rebirth can't really be called that because nearly everyone ends up having to get help with it. DSC and Barbo can't really be solo'd (at least not by a fresh lv75 player in a reasonable amount of time) and while kraken can be, most people still prefer to get help, or buy the kill.
Something similar happens with DW equipment, most high lv players already have them, leaving the chance to obtain them to players outside the guilds.
Difference is, for this to occur, many years must pass before the very first weapon dropped by a guild is sold in a stall because everybody have their own.
This is actually wrong. I've been playing here since the server start, and while in theory your claim IS valid, the 'rules' always end up being broken. People from other guilds, even people from outside a guild were able to get BoEs (or other uns 65 weps, but BoEs are the rarest, so just to emphasize), CA Frames and Paws, all without being involved in DW/CA or the main guild. Why? Guild leaders tend to sell the loot (either due to logical reasons or due to scam), guild members tend to sell the items, people tend to quit and sell the items and so on... we're talking weeks or a month-two into the server and those equips already being available at the market (not at the rate you're talking about, but not the point), with it only becoming more and more common afterwards. Nowhere near 'many years', and I assume a similar thing will happen with Death Weapons sooner than you think.
------------------
To summarize, you do seem like someone who knows a lot about the game itself, old PKO/ToP and how everything should go in theory, but I don't think you know enough about this game in particular to make such bold claims. Yes, this is (or should be) a recreation of the old game, but the people are not the same, the atmosphere is not the same, the beliefs are not the same. This does make the social aspect of the gameplay (which we concluded is an important one) work differently than it should in theory or than it did back then. I suggest you to relax a little bit and try it out for yourself, and you'll see that the people here are not just "naysaying", but are speaking for years of experience in this server in particular.
 

thebluehair

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#19
too much bla bla bla.
If you like the game, play.
If don't, don't play.
Server ain't gonna change.
End.
 

wbxlevante

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#20
@Leba
I agree in every point you make.
Even when you say im wrong, later you give me the reason.

Main problem im trying to point out is the availabilty of that content.
Lets say that I work and have a family.

BD spawns and Abaddon bosses have a super short time window.
One is controlled by the ruling guild.
The other is once a week in a very specific hour. Which later on is also controlled by the ruling guild, because its a pvp map.

Meaning, only dedicated players have a chance.
Casual players should have a chance also.
Im not asking for the same odds, but leave something out there in the map we can work on, even if the chances are 0.000001%.

Thats the kind of solution I would like to have,

Take jackpot for example, even if you cant kill bosses, you have a super small chance to get the items from it.
I know its an illusion, and its likely to spend more years trying to get the item that way than the main one, but its a mechanic the game offers.

Im aiming for something like minibosses, like CA bd army to get bd gems.


And lastly
@the other players that responded

Ive read you, I agree and disagree.
But im trying to have a propper discussion about game content.
 
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